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August 8th, 2006, 05:29 AM
cebula_2005

Quote:

Originally posted by SarahS:
Tra, I don't think blunt is the best way to describe your problem. The problem is that you tend to state something you perceive as fact in one or two sentences without any explanation. Most times, many people do not agree with your perceived fact, and the lack of explanation leaves no room for discussion or understanding. This is the worst when you reply to someone in this manner. It appears that you have not even bothered to think about what they are trying to say. So I guess you have a lack of wordiness that comes across as flaming.

I tried to explain things very clearly in a certain situation I've recently been in, yet people still don't seem to get it. I also think a lot about what a lot of people say. Sometimes I dismiss it entirely, yes. (Not always, however.) It's ok to definitively call something wrong. And why should something that is wrong be figured into your considerations?

What I perceive as truth...what is truth...is very simple and can often be stated in a few sentences. There's often no wiggle room. Some people don't like that. Some people want to be able to say "well, maybe this is right, or maybe a compromise of thing A and thing B can work better." It just doesn't work that way. I think that truth is often if not most of the time as simple as 2+2=4. I guess I don't think it always needs explaination. It seems blatantly obvious. I realize that to some, it is not. And in those cases I try to explain what I mean, as I am doing now. I hope you don't think I've taken what you've all said lightly or as nothing. Unless I know you to be wrong, (and on this thread, I don't) I will consider what you have to say. I always have.

Thanks for all your imput.
August 8th, 2006, 05:34 AM
cebula_2005

Quote:

Possibly because some of them are?

Isn't it wrong to take something that can be attributed to some members of a group and apply it to the whole? That would be prejudice. If you judge God or true Christianity by some Christians you will get a skewed picture of what God/Christianity is like. God is perfect. Christians are not.
August 8th, 2006, 06:45 AM
ButtercupFlibble

Quote:

Originally posted by Tra:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Possibly because some of them are?

Isn't it wrong to take something that can be attributed to some members of a group and apply it to the whole? That would be prejudice. If you judge God or true Christianity by some Christians you will get a skewed picture of what God/Christianity is like. God is perfect. Christians are not.<hr /></blockquote>You're right, it is wrong to judge some members of a group and apply it to the whole. People still do it every day.

I'm not commenting on what I do or do not think about Christians or Christianity as a whole. You were asking why people in general think that Christians are pushy, etc, and I really think that that's why.

Most of the nicer Christians I've had the pleasure to meet don't bring it up unless the discussion turns to religion.

Just like with any group, it's the loud, annoying ones - loud, uninvited knocks on the door just as you've gotten the baby to finally lie down for a nap - that skew the picture.
August 8th, 2006, 08:22 AM
sharlit

Something that is wrong should be figured into your considerations because the other person probably believes it, and you need to be aware of this fact when composing your argument.

I know you're fond of the "sky is blue" example, so I'll use that. "The sky is blue." That is a fact and can be stated in one sentence as such. This is great as long as everyone agrees on this truth. But in many situations, people don't agree on truths, so you need to imagine that you're talking to someone who does not believe that the sky is blue. This statement is meaningless to them. You therefore need to elaborate on this point. When doing so, it is helpful to know why they don't think the sky is blue. Perhaps you need to explain that blue is a certain wavelength of light, or that we perceive the blue because that's the part of the spectrum not absorbed, or whatever other facts explain the sky being blue.

ETA: I assume you are young. As you get farther in your schooling, you will learn more and more in your writing classes about the importance of assessing your audience. This step in composing something is as important as steps you may already be familiar with such as brainstorming ideas or composing an outline.

[ August 08, 2006 05:27 AM: Message edited by: SarahS ]
August 8th, 2006, 03:30 PM
cebula_2005

Oh good...no Baal dances! PHEW!

You're right about the evil thing.

You're probably right about how I come across, too. I don't try to come across that way, but I suppose I let anger get the better of me sometimes. I suppose I am too blunt, also. I just say what is true without sugar coating it in any way, and I suppose no one is going to like that. Thanks for your input.

[ August 08, 2006 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Tra ]
August 8th, 2006, 07:54 PM
cebula_2005

I am not that young, actually. Well, it depends on your defintion of young. I have heard of assessing your audience, and I get what you're saying about having to describe the blue sky and explain it. I thought I was doing that. Maybe I need to get a little more in depth. Of course, no one listens when I talk about the Bible, the main source of my arguements. "It's circular reasoning" they say. It's not. Guess I'll have to show that more. Look at the Bible. Look at history and all that's come true from the Bible. The sky is blue is blue is blue the sky is blue today! Thanks! [img]smile.gif[/img]
August 8th, 2006, 08:31 PM
Miss_Nellie_OMalley

Funny, you've been so much clearer on your convictions and beliefs here than you have been on any other board. Have you considered that maybe your arguement are coming across wrong when you are "out of your element"

This is what I have found works for me when I'm speaking to someone who does not share my religious beliefs. You can't just quote from the bible... because as far as the other party is concerned its a book of historical fiction. Kinda like how serious you'd take someone quoting the Tao. What you need to do is take Science and History... give them the facts from there, then show them how the Bible backs up those facts.

Like we are using the whole "the sky is blue" statement... keep in mind you are talking to a blind man when you are saying that... he's never seen the sky... and its your word... tell him why the sky is blue... break it down to the molecular level. Hand him the One and One and have him add it up together... they are only ever gonna come to the answer of 2.

Just like a trial attorney... all you can do is present the evidence and hope to sway the jury.
August 8th, 2006, 11:56 PM
sharlit

You have to be careful with quoting the Bible. As we've said before, there are many interpretations of it. If you use a quote with no explanation, it's not very informative.

I think Miss Nellie has a good point. I will definitely listen to science and history before Bible quotes.
August 9th, 2006, 04:48 AM
cebula_2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss_Nellie_OMalley:
Funny, you've been so much clearer on your convictions and beliefs here than you have been on any other board. Have you considered that maybe your arguement are coming across wrong when you are "out of your element"

I never thought about it, but I think you have a point. Actually, I think I feel freer here to say what I believe because there are no censors saying I can't talk about religion like there are at the other boards I am a member of. I can actually mention the words "Christ, God, Jesus, Bible, etc." without fear of being banned. I can say what I mean without having to circumnavigate the point in order to avoid offending someone. It IS a lot easier to say what I want here. Unfortunately, not as many people frequent this board as the other boards, and on one of the other boards I am not even allowed to link to this board, so no one there gets my point. I would give up trying to say anything of religious import anywhere but here except for that.

As for the blind man analogy...I like that. Try to describe to a blind man that the sky is blue and why. I guess, then, you'd have to start at the most basic level... "There is a sky..."
August 9th, 2006, 04:50 AM
cebula_2005

The thing about science and history is...I'd sooner believe Bible quotes than that. If the Bible told me the world would end tomorrow...regardless of the fact that science and patterns of history say the sun is going to rise, I would believe the Bible.

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